Free forum software recommendations

[writespeak]

Yes, free. The forum I have in mind won't be bringing in revenue anytime soon, maybe never, so I'm looking at what forum software is available for free.

Since a lot of people will probably be in my situation, feel free to make this a thread about any free forum software. What programs have you used, what were their strengths and limitations, and what did you like and dislike about them?

What I'm looking for:

Specs
- Platform: Linux
- Uses PHP and MySQL
- Produces valid or close-to-valid, non-bloated code
- Doesn't have major security risks as long as it's upgraded
- Has a selection of themes available that appeal to different tastes

Features
- Advanced permissions setup for members and mods
- Can make some forums accessible only to some members
- Can make some forums read-only except for specific members who can post (for an advertising section)
- Ability to warn and ban members
- PM
- A good search feature

And probably some other features that I'm not thinking about right now.

I'm trying out Simple Machines, and so far it looks like it might be good enough, but I'm wondering if I should be considering other options. PunBB looks like a good program, but it doesn't have all the features I want. phpBB themes may be suitable for a hobby forum, for example, but they don't appeal to me, especially the buttons. But that's just a personal preference, and I'd like to hear what's good about it too. :)

Thanks,
Lois

[DavidL]

I wouldnt go with phpbb just yet because of this exploit notice (http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=348139). Even though the latest version fixes it I think it will happen again. I hosted a forum for a family member that got defaced that was phpbb. Nice software but with it being used so much thats what the kiddies go after and defacing left and right.
I had just created a new forum last night and installed phpbb and then found out about this. I will be deleting that install and going with SMF.
I had used SMF when it first came out and had load issues. I had ran an adult forum with about 300 concurrent users on at a time and with it being on a server of its own it still dropped all the time. Upgrading to vB took care of this issue. BUT going BACK to SMF a couple versions later and things have changed. No load, Same users. That shows me that SMF is going somewhere and its good. I also like the ease of use it has. The admin section is easy to travel and find your way through, and have the ability to upgrade to vB if the forum takes off which is pretty easy to do with impex from vb.
My vote for free is SMF.

[TehBooster]

My vote obviously is for phpBB.

Granted, I do think some of the styles available (free and paid) for phpBB tend to be some what... displeasing to the eyes.

However, yes there is a notice regarding a worm, that happens to be for out of date phpBB installations, using old exploits that (obviously) haven't been patched due to people not upgrading. So until otherwise proven, please keep the FUD machine turned off ;)
:soapbox:

[Scott]

I would agree with David and go for SMF. I'll be honest - I've never used the software extensively but from what I have seen is very good. Highly optimized performance compared to other forum software, including the commercial ones.

Considering it is still pretty new, there will be some features that it'll lack, however as far as free software goes, it looks like a winner :D

[Techie-Micheal]

I wouldnt go with phpbb just yet because of this exploit notice (http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=348139). Even though the latest version fixes it I think it will happen again. I hosted a forum for a family member that got defaced that was phpbb. Nice software but with it being used so much thats what the kiddies go after and defacing left and right.
I had just created a new forum last night and installed phpbb and then found out about this. I will be deleting that install and going with SMF.
I had used SMF when it first came out and had load issues. I had ran an adult forum with about 300 concurrent users on at a time and with it being on a server of its own it still dropped all the time. Upgrading to vB took care of this issue. BUT going BACK to SMF a couple versions later and things have changed. No load, Same users. That shows me that SMF is going somewhere and its good. I also like the ease of use it has. The admin section is easy to travel and find your way through, and have the ability to upgrade to vB if the forum takes off which is pretty easy to do with impex from vb.
My vote for free is SMF.I am getting sick and tired of the FUD flinging. The exploit I spoke of in that topic is for a vulnerability that is 8, read, 8 revisions old. Would you rather we ignore our users? Instead we are doing all we can to assist them, despite them not updating to the latest version. Cut the FUD.

[DavidL]

My vote obviously is for phpBB.
However, yes there is a notice regarding a worm, that happens to be for out of date phpBB installations, using old exploits that (obviously) haven't been patched due to people not upgrading. So until otherwise proven, please keep the FUD machine turned off ;)
:soapbox:
Maybe if there was a way for "them" (no pun intended :D) phpbb users to upgrade much easier and not have to add each hack back in then you would see less out of date installs.
Wouldnt you agree?
I am not picking on phpbb software, I love it. There are more exploits for phpbb and more to come only because its the most popular forum software and I'm not saying that vB & SMF are more secure, Theres holes in everything, the kiddies just go after phpbb because its easier to find an outdated version. Yes I still see outdated versions of vB but to know if the webmaster has hard coded the patches is far beyond me. Reality tells me that the kiddies will always go after the phpbb installs first.

I reserve the right to be wrong at any time ;)

-Dave

[DavidL]

I am getting sick and tired of the FUD flinging. The exploit I spoke of in that topic is for a vulnerability that is 8, read, 8 revisions old. Would you rather we ignore our users? Instead we are doing all we can to assist them, despite them not updating to the latest version. Cut the FUD.
Wow, this is going to get interesting, I will report this thread to have split into a new one to keep this one on topic :)

[cyberturk]

i am a fan of Simple Machines Forum, free and powerfull :D

[Wheels]

I would go with SMF. I set up a new staff forum with that software and migrated the users from a phpBB forum due to the host banning that software.

[Jan]

Wow, this is going to get interesting, I will report this thread to have split into a new one to keep this one on topic :)
Seems to be fine where it is :)

[DavidL]

Seems to be fine where it is :)
Ok, Just didnt want the author to get upset if this thread became a forum bash :smokin:
But as far as I can tell, SMF is in the lead with non-biased votes ;)

[robert]

I've tested practically everything there is -- vBulletin, IPB, phpBB, punBB, YaBB, some vB clone, SMF, and probably others that I am not recalling right now.

My favorite paid software is absolutely vBulletin. However, this is obviously not relevant to Lois's original question, so I won't even mention it again. I'd say my favorite free forum software is SMF. I've used the new version, 1.1 RC (release candidate) 1, and it's very full-featured and speedy, especially for the free, open-source forum that it is.

I encourage you to try out the most popular boards for yourself, Lois, and then make a relatively educated decision based on your favorite. The following are several boards' websites so that you can try them out:

phpBB: http://www.phpbb.com
PunBB: http://www.punbb.org
SMF: http://www.simplemachines.org

Good luck!

[adb22791]

She asked for free software! :doh:

PHPBB has by far the best permissions and usergroup management system (SMF's permissions have been destroyed in the latest versions). Also head over to http://area51.phpbb.com and check out phpbb 3.0. When that comes out it will be alot easier to upgrade from phpbb 2.0 to 3.0 instead of SMF to 3.0. And 3.0 looks like it will be one hell of an upgrade.
Besides, do you really want to chmod your entire directory 777 :S:idea2:

[CD Burnt]

do y'all think having conversion-ability to a major brand of software is important for a free forum software choice? example: if a conversion program was available to convert "whatever-free" to phbb or vbulletin


while I am at it..... anyone tried burningboard? they have a free version.

[writespeak]

Thanks everyone. :) The project I was asking about may have to be on hold for a while now, but I'm still interested in finding out about forum software.

She asked for free software! :doh:

I love vB, but it isn't in the budget when there is no budget. :(

PHPBB has by far the best permissions and usergroup management system (SMF's permissions have been destroyed in the latest versions).

Interesting. Examples?

And 3.0 looks like it will be one hell of an upgrade.

I'll watch for it. :)

Besides, do you really want to chmod your entire directory 777 :S:idea2:

Uh, could you explain? What program requires you to do that? I have a test version of SMF set up, and it didn't require any CHMODing.

Thanks,
Lois

[writespeak]

I'd say my favorite free forum software is SMF. I've used the new version, 1.1 RC (release candidate) 1, and it's very full-featured and speedy, especially for the free, open-source forum that it is.

I'm trying out 1.05 now. How does 1.1 compare, or have you tried both?

I encourage you to try out the most popular boards for yourself, Lois, and then make a relatively educated decision based on your favorite.

I'm trying to get some of that education here. :) It sounds like I didn't miss any of the candidates to be considered.

PunBB is off the list for me because it doesn't have a lot of the features I want. However, it sounds like a good option to consider for those who just want a basic forum.

I'm now considering phpBB and SMF. Is it allowed to make your own themes, including your own buttons, for these programs? phpBB looks like it has some themes more to my taste compared to when I last looked at them, but I don't want to use the images that I see on all the buttons.

How resource-intensive are phpBB and SMF compared to each other? I don't know if anyone knows the answer, but I thought I'd ask. :)

Thanks,
Lois

[adb22791]

I love vB, but it isn't in the budget when there is no budget. :(

Yeah that can be a problem :(



Interesting. Examples?


In my SMF I couldn't get it to set certain forums so that only certain people could post in them, etc. The permissions system in SMF is not intuitive.


Uh, could you explain? What program requires you to do that? I have a test version of SMF set up, and it didn't require any CHMODing.


Interesting, back when I had SMF I had an issue with certain things running correctly. They told me to CHMOD everything 777 ([Unknown] said so himself) and that that would fix it. I was very quickly back to PHPBB. Also, while PHPBB may not be the sexiest out there, it is definatly better than SMF's theming system.

Just my opinion :D :tazd:

[writespeak]

In my SMF I couldn't get it to set certain forums so that only certain people could post in them, etc. The permissions system in SMF is not intuitive.

I tried to set that up and it didn't work for me. A search in the SMF forum brought me to an explanation of the steps, and they still didn't work. I was hoping that I'd be able to figure that one out eventually, but that is a key feature.

I did get it set up so that only certain members could access some forums, but I wanted other forums to be read-only except for members with the right permissions. Or even better, that only some members could start threads in those forums.

Interesting, back when I had SMF I had an issue with certain things running correctly. They told me to CHMOD everything 777 ([Unknown] said so himself) and that that would fix it.

I only have a test forum running, so maybe those issues haven't come up for me yet.

Also, while PHPBB may not be the sexiest out there, it is definatly better than SMF's theming system.

The system or the themes themselves? I can customize colours and a few other things, but I don't want to use the phpBB buttons with the characters on them. They make me think of a hobby forum, not one where you could expect to be taken seriously. Not that hobbies don't have serious discussion, but those buttons...bug me.

Lois

[TehBooster]

The system or the themes themselves? I can customize colours and a few other things, but I don't want to use the phpBB buttons with the characters on them. They make me think of a hobby forum, not one where you could expect to be taken seriously. Not that hobbies don't have serious discussion, but those buttons...bug me.

Lois
Uh... if you don't like the images in a style... change them, no one is forcing you to use them ;)

[writespeak]

Uh... if you don't like the images in a style... change them, no one is forcing you to use them ;)

Whew! That's good to know. ;)

I remember trying to find the answer to how much you could change it a while ago, and I don't remember finding the answer. So we can make any changes we want as long as we leave the phpBB copyright notice in place?

My graphics skills are rather lacking, but one of these days I'll learn more. :)

Lois

[adb22791]

Lois,
Its very easy to customize images in PHPBB. Theres a very nice image pack (http://www.phpbb.com/images/icon-dl-zip.gif) here :).
Also SMF permissions are 100% broken for me, and I've never gotten them to work. Plus the PHPBB ACP is alot easier to use.

[writespeak]

Its very easy to customize images in PHPBB. Theres a very nice image pack (http://www.phpbb.com/images/icon-dl-zip.gif) here :).

Thanks, but...you might want to check that link. :)

Also SMF permissions are 100% broken for me, and I've never gotten them to work. Plus the PHPBB ACP is alot easier to use.

OK, I'll try phpBB too. It probably won't be for a while, though. It doesn't look like the people I've been talking to want to go ahead with the forum idea (although there's still a small chance), and I don't have time to experiment more at this point.

When is the next upgrade of phpBB supposed to come out?

Lois

[Tyler]

The "major" one? There is no planned date. :(

[robert]

I'm trying out 1.05 now. How does 1.1 compare, or have you tried both?

I've only tried 1.1, and there is no published changelog AFAIK, so I really have no idea what is new in 1.1, but it's pretty decent. ;)

[KimmiKat]

The "new" version of phpBB has been under developement for a long time. A Lot of people has given up waiting for it to come out and lost hope due to the long delay. Personally I would like to see it come out.

She asked for free software! :doh:

PHPBB has by far the best permissions and usergroup management system (SMF's permissions have been destroyed in the latest versions). Also head over to http://area51.phpbb.com and check out phpbb 3.0. When that comes out it will be alot easier to upgrade from phpbb 2.0 to 3.0 instead of SMF to 3.0. And 3.0 looks like it will be one hell of an upgrade.
Besides, do you really want to chmod your entire directory 777 :S:idea2:

[TehBooster]

Whew! That's good to know. ;)

I remember trying to find the answer to how much you could change it a while ago, and I don't remember finding the answer. So we can make any changes we want as long as we leave the phpBB copyright notice in place?
You change everything to your hearts content. Removing the copyright notice from the template (the bit everyone will see), while is frowned up, can be done (but you do forfeit your rights to support), the actual copyright in the codebase however must remain (and if you do remove it, we'll send an army of Bertie Bears (http://lambcutlet.org/gallery/Photolog/Bertie_army) after you! :D)

[writespeak]

Removing the copyright notice from the template (the bit everyone will see), while is frowned up, can be done

But I won't remove it, no matter which program I use. The copyright notice belongs there. :)

Lois

[TehBooster]

But I won't remove it, no matter which program I use. The copyright notice belongs there. :)

Lois
Indeed it does :D

[Jan]

I have used phpbb and adding templates was super easy. The last forum I was admin at had a choice of many skins :)

[SoftWareRevue]

I have a couple phpBBs I use for play toys. :blush: I thought templating was rather easy. It's just the admin panel that I wish had more going for it.

[writespeak]

It's just the admin panel that I wish had more going for it.

So which has more admin features, phpBB or SMF? Or maybe "more" isn't the right question.

I'd like to compare the two. Actually, I'd like someone else to compare them, so what do you think of this idea?

1. We make a list here of the features that we like or want in free forum software, both admin features and features that members can use.

2. One or more people look at test versions of both phpBB and SMF, compare the features we listed, and report back here.

My time is limited in the next few weeks, but if anyone wants to do the above, I can give you temp admin privileges to the test SMF forum I've set up. I can also provide space for a test phpBB forum (not that I think anyone here is lacking in web space).

At this point, I doubt that either forum will come out a clear winner. Both are popular, and both have a lot of features. I'd like to break down and assess those features to help people decide which one is best for them.

Any volunteers?

There is no best free forum software. There is only the free forum software that is best for you. :dancin:

:chairhide

Lois

[DavidL]

Lois, Like you, I am not set for time. Monday I am good to go though. So, I can take a couple hours and install both to see the pro's & cons of each.
Did you want the latest stable version of each? Or beta?
I Dont want to be the only one to do this and I would like to see a couple more members do this as well as each would have his/her own.

[Scott]

I'll have some time tonight to install a fresh copy of both and give them a whirl. As for features, here's a starting list:

1) All the ones Lois mentioned in the original post.
2) Ability to easily change/install themes
3) Easy to use admin backend
4) Speed of loading (this might need a little code tampering)
5) Inbuilt SEO

Any more?

[writespeak]

Sounds good! I'm hoping that more people will add to the list of features to evaluate.

My time is limited until January at least because I'm moving at the end of the month, but I'm happy that some others have the time and interest to evaluate both programs. I suggested this idea for the community, not just for myself, so let's go with what's useful to the majority.

Latest stable version or beta? For testing purposes, I don't know if beta would be good because we might be evaluating bugs that have yet to be worked out, but what do you guys think?

Lois

[Scott]

I think latest stable version is the one to go for. If a new version comes out (say phpbb 3 or smf 1.1) then we could come back and see if things have changed.

[Scott]

Well, I've downloaded and installed both phpBB and SMF and then I've looked into how well the fair against each other. They are good competition to each other, and I'll save my personal views until the end. Lets start with the daddy, phpBB.

The first thing that impressed me with phpBB was how small the download was – only around 600KB for the full package (zip) – when I’m used to IPB’s 2MB I was a little surprised. However, onwards with the installation. Installation of phpBB was very easy and certain other pieces of web software (commercial ones included) could learn a bit from the simplicity of this stage.

One installed, you’re greeted by the none-to-cheery subSilver theme. I’ll be blunt – I dislike that theme. It is lucky for me, perhaps, that installing a theme on phpBB is remarkable simple, shame editing doesn’t have the same flexibility. If you want to edit the CSS (I do like getting into the nitty gritty parts of software) you’ll have to go through the template folders. However, there is limited options – changing fonts, basic colours, from the ACP if CSS isn’t something you want to get your hands on.

With the theme out of the way, I went to look at how phpBB handles new forums and particularly the permission control requested by Lois. Quite simply, if groups and permissions are something you need to have, phpBB has them. In a few seconds you can hide one forum for everyone but mods, create another one which is “restricted” until you specify which groups can see/read/reply. Without a doubt, phpBB is quite solid regarding its usergroups and permissions and it defiantly rivals the commercial forums in this aspect. The one thing which does bug me about the group settings is the idea of a Group Moderator. It’s a nice feature, but not something every group needs…shame it’s a mandatory field :s

Looking away from groups towards individual members, phpBB has the basics you’d expect. But just the basics. There is no warn feature here which I know I would miss if I was forced to move to phpBB. Ban control is possible, but only through the ACP. PhpBB has the fundamental options, but it struggles to keep up with new features without adding mods…which are quite a bit of a pain if you have to add lots.

Things like PM and search are very much covered in phpBB as you would expect.

Moving on to SMF. Again, the installation was wickedly simple – SMF even attempts to delete the install files for added security.

Starting with the theme again, SMF allows you to install in a pretty similar fashion to phpBB, with the added option of uploading the file from your computer. However, if you want to change basic things such as fonts, colours, etc then forget about finding any of that in the ACP. Every customization you’ll have to edit the files (CSS or PHP for the templates). This is a pretty big weakness SMF should address IMO, a small editing facility would be nice.

Moving on to permissions again, you might want a pretty strong drink this time around. Perhaps once you get the hang of this, it does make sense – however to me never using this before I couldn’t get more confused. I just don’t get the logic in the way this is set up. Ideally, you want to set general permissions for forums and then overwrite them if needed for a group…yeah? However, in SMF each member is put into 2 groups each with their own permissions. The first one is quite ironically called “Ungrouped Members” (unless you’re an admin), however the second group depends on post numbers. Being a new member, I was shoved into the “Newbie” group. Obviously, the names are changeable, however I always considered these member titles to be separate from my actual group which is usually unique. Perhaps this system is being readdressed in version 1.1, but I wouldn’t like to have to use it each day. Maybe someone with a little more experience can explain how this system actually works?

Things get better if we move away from group permissions. There is no warn system in SMF either, but it does have a nice feature called Karma. When enabled, members have the option of Applauding the member or Smiting them. Open to abuse perhaps, but still a good idea. Ban controls are a little more detailed in SMF – you can prevent a user from posting but still able to read. Temporary bans are also possible if needed.

A few things in the ACP of SMF I like. The first is the “Latest News” box – this is pretty important at keeping users up to date with the latest news, particularly if a security notice is out. Secondly I liked the inbuilt help feature accessible by clicking on the ? at the side of the feature. Useful if, like me, you haven’t a clue what certain things do. One last thing, which simply blew me away in SMF, was the “Package Manager”. This allows you to download and install mods on your board without editing a single file. This is probably the best feature of SMF I’ve seen so far and it defiantly doesn’t exist in phpBB (although maybe it should).

As with phpBB, PM and Search are both present and seem to work without trouble. SMF’s search feature allows you to search in how many forums you like, unlike phpBB where it is either all or one.

Overall I’ve learned a lot about both of these in the course of writing this. At the moment, I think SMF is perhaps too new to force me to switch to it (if I was using phpBB). However at time of writing SMF 1.1 is already at release candidate stage so perhaps lots of the basic features will be sorted when that is fully released. As for phpBB, it has all the fundamentals you’d expect from a pretty tried-and-tested app. I hope that version 3 (no idea when that will be released) will add a bit more functionality that phpBB needs to keep up with the competition.

I've left a few things such as SEO out of this since I know very little about it, hopefully others will be able to fill in the gaps I've left.

[TehBooster]

One last thing, which simply blew me away in SMF, was the “Package Manager”. This allows you to download and install mods on your board without editing a single file. This is probably the best feature of SMF I’ve seen so far and it defiantly doesn’t exist in phpBB (although maybe it should).
It somewhat exists in phpBB in the form of EasyMOD (http://sourceforge.net/projects/easymod/) (basically it installs the mod for you from the .mod file/zip file, though i've never used it so I can't say for certain).

[Scott]

I based this comparison on unmodded versions of each software, taking into account phpBB's active modding community would make this comparison a little unfair.

[TehBooster]

I based this comparison on unmodded versions of each software, taking into account phpBB's active modding community would make this comparison a little unfair.
Point Taken. However I was only stating the functionally does exist in some form. <personal opinion>Though honestly, i'd never recommend EasyMOD unless it was a last resort. (i'm sure someone on the MOD team or the EasyMOD team will see this and i'll get a severe beating)</personal opinion>

[A_Jelly_Doughnut]

I think SMF is perhaps too new to force me to switch to it SMF has been around for years...as YaBB SE. Neither project is likely to go belly-up soon.

And Olympus/phpBB3's official CVS is more or less stable...except for the parts that are in active development (the ACP is unusable at my last check). ANd there is no guarantee that any given part might soon be rewritten.

phpBB3 ought to be very solid. There is some ambiguous code that needs further commenting, and a couple hundred bugs, nothing that a good beta test won't wipe out.

And yes, I'm the same person who forked the code and agreed with people who said the code is poorly designed. Example: class user is in file session.php. That's my idea of bad design. And that ambiguous code.

[Scott]

I'm sure phpBB3 will be pretty solid, I think its a shame that loyal phpBB users have had to wait so long to get features other software offers right now.

[namkrowa]

I would go with an SMF forum. I'm currently using it as the support center for my web hosting organization, and I've yet to run into problems. It does everything I need it to do, too. Great software.