DMOZ [Archive] - Forum University

writespeak

12-16-2005, 06:31 PM

Pretty sure I submitted it a couple months ago to http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/On_the_Web/Message_Boards/

That looks like the right category. :)

But, like I said, they make you wait long enough that it's easy to forget.

It isn't about making people wait. I'll quote myself from here (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=3469641#post3469641):

DMOZ is run by volunteers, many (most?) of whom log in to update their category only occasionally. When volunteers haven't done an edit for 4 months, they're automatically delisted as the volunteer for that category and have to get reinstated. Or maybe the category sits without an editor for months or longer, and when a new one volunteers, that person has a backlog to get through, which can't be done all at once.

I wouldn't say that they "never bothered" listing the domain, just that DMOZ doesn't have volunteers sitting and waiting for new sites to list.

The above is one reason for delays. Other reasons are submitting the site to the wrong category, submitting sites that are still under construction, and not writing good site descriptions. If everything is right, it takes just a few minutes for the DMOZ editor to add the site. If any of these things aren't right, chances are the listing will get left until the editor has finished all the other work -- which might never happen.

As a DMOZ editor, I've had to rewrite quite a few descriptions because they contained promotional language or for other reasons. It takes time to go through the site to write a description when it wasn't written right in the first place. When I have just a few minutes at DMOZ, I'd rather spend it on sites that just need a quick check and then I can approve them. That's why writing a good DMOZ-type description was going to be one of my suggestions. :)

If you've already submitted it, all you can do now is wait. :spin:

Lois

Aussie Bob

12-16-2005, 08:37 PM

The thing I hate about it is, they take so long that I can get convinced that I never submitted. But, if I re-submit, I'm penalized. :crazy:
Well what do you expect from a bunch of lofty tofty volunteers, who neglect to look after their section for long periods of time? It's not like they're running a business there or anything. If that was the case, they'd have to have the worst customer service track record of any company on earth. :D

Yes, I've had some bad experiences with some arrogant dmoz editors, who thought the sun basically shines out of their butt, and they're reached some kind of level of ascention. :bow:

I've read some guides on submitting a site to dmoz, and you'd think you're assembling an atomic bomb or something, with the care and precision you have to take, making the listing submission. Each step must be absolutely perfect, or some prissy little dmoz volunteer will ignore your request, or send you back some snobby little email. :dfingers:

Yes, feeling much better now. :dqueen:

writespeak

12-16-2005, 08:51 PM

Yes, feeling much better now. :dqueen:

I hope so, because I, ahem, am a DMOZ editor. :pink:

I wouldn't call it "neglecting" when some of us are involved in many volunteer projects. I've had little contact with other DMOZ editors, though, and as an editor, I've never made contact with the people whose sites I review. I either approve the listings or, if they look like time-consuming tasks, leave them for later and proceed to the ones that I can easily approve.

It really isn't that hard to write a DMOZ listing description. The main problem people have is using promotional language. The descriptions are not sales pitches. If people could simply describe their sites with facts and no embellishments, their sites would get listed faster. Depending on other factors, that is.

If you don't like the DMOZ delays, become part of the solution instead of the problem and sign up to be an editor yourself. :)

Lois

SoftWareRevue

12-16-2005, 09:52 PM

. . . If you don't like the DMOZ delays, become part of the solution instead of the problem and sign up to be an editor yourself. . .:rofl:

Yeh. I'm sure my aps were considered in depth. :bag2:

As you said, it's easy to write a description.

It's easy to submit to the right category.

It's easy to wait until you actually have a site.

It's not like the DMOZ rules of submission are difficult to understand.

What is left to explain l e n g t h y delays for getting submissions approved, then? :think:

I am sure that there are some editors that take their position seriously. And I applaud them for their efforts.

But, seriously, it has become a joke. This is one step that, although I advise everyone to take, I find myself skipping because it's just not worth the aggrivation.

writespeak

12-16-2005, 10:34 PM

What is left to explain l e n g t h y delays for getting submissions approved, then? :think:

Time. Or lack of it.

I volunteered for a category that had had no editor for a while, and I spent a lot of time in the first few months going through the backlog and adding more organization (subcategories) to the category. Since then, I've logged in every month or 2, and each time, I approve maybe 1 or 2 listings. I haven't gotten to the more difficult ones yet.

You know that I take my volunteer work seriously, as do most volunteers that I know. But you also know just some of the volunteer projects I'm involved with. Each of us has only so much time.

If you see "Volunteer to edit this category" at the bottom of a category you're interested in, go for it. :) Note that that doesn't necessarily mean that there's no volunteer for it, just that it's open for someone to take it on.

Lois

SoftWareRevue

12-16-2005, 10:46 PM

. . .If you see "Volunteer to edit this category" at the bottom of a category you're interested in, go for it. :) Note that that doesn't necessarily mean that there's no volunteer for it, just that it's open for someone to take it on.

LoisWhen volunteers admitedly check in every couple months, shouldn't the need for more volunteers be quite clear?

writespeak

12-16-2005, 11:09 PM

When volunteers admitedly check in every couple months, shouldn't the need for more volunteers be quite clear?

I spoke only for myself when I said I log in only every month or 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's typical. But I figure every month or 2 is a lot better than nothing, and it isn't a delay of years like when there's no editor for a category.

If someone who has more time than I do wants to take over the category I edit, they're welcome to it. In fact, "Volunteer to edit this category" appears at the bottom of the subcategories I set up. I'll maintain them as long as no one volunteers, but no one else has volunteered for them yet. Not that I know of, anyway.

What do you think that DMOZ should do to get more volunteers? :think:

Lois

Aussie Bob

12-16-2005, 11:30 PM

I hope so, because I, ahem, am a DMOZ editor. :pink:
Oh lol, I missed that. :scatter:

I imagine you do a pretty good job, and don't abandon your post for mths on end, while folks have listing submissions waiting. :dfingers:

Jan

12-16-2005, 11:37 PM

So after all the waiting and cussing, what is the benefit of submitting? Sounds like something I would toss in the too hard basket.

Aussie Bob

12-17-2005, 12:03 AM

. . . In fact, "Volunteer to edit this category" appears at the bottom of the subcategories I set up.
Which DMOZ catagory is that for?

writespeak

12-17-2005, 12:15 AM

So after all the waiting and cussing, what is the benefit of submitting? Sounds like something I would toss in the too hard basket.

Submitting sites isn't difficult as long as you follow the rules. :angel:

Waiting for sites to be listed can be a pain, but if you submit your site, it can get listed. If you don't submit it, it won't.

If it gets listed, you get these benefits:

- An incoming link from DMOZ, which is an established directory
- Being on the DMOZ page that often appears in search engine results for the directory topic
- Links from sites that pick up the listings from DMOZ

When I was working on SEO for one site, I did a search for links for a competitor whose site was high in search engine results for the target keywords. A lot of the links were from sites that published DMOZ links. If a DMOZ link were just in one directory, it wouldn't matter so much, but I didn't have a chance of getting links on all those other pages unless the site got listed at DMOZ. That's when I decided that DMOZ was important. :)

Lois

SoftWareRevue

12-17-2005, 12:19 AM

. . .

What do you think that DMOZ should do to get more volunteers? :think:

LoisWhatever they're not doing.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's volunteered for categories and never heard a word about it.

You can argue that I didn't follow the application process, so it was ignored. But, I'm pretty sure I can follow directions.

The only thing I can figure is the dmoz "senior editors" have retired.

writespeak

12-17-2005, 12:21 AM

Which DMOZ catagory is that for?

Which province would you like to be the editor for under "Veterinarians: Canada"? ;)

The above is the category I edit. I broke it into geographical categories, and those are the ones that show "Volunteer to edit this category." That leaves them open for anyone to volunteer for, but I'm still there every month or so.

Lois

writespeak

12-17-2005, 12:39 AM

I'm pretty sure I can follow directions.

I don't doubt that. :star:

I'll see if I can find out what's happening with your application.

Lois

Tyler

12-17-2005, 01:18 AM

There, now we all can rant about DMOZ.

I never got any news on it! Scary part is that I submitted about 9 months ago! :angry:

writespeak

12-17-2005, 02:15 AM

I never got any news on it! Scary part is that I submitted about 9 months ago! :angry:

When I took over the category I do, there were some sites in the queue going back a few years. You might want to volunteer for the category you submitted the site to to give the site a chance to get listed.

Then you'd be in another queue, but that's another story. :hypno:

Lois

Jan

12-17-2005, 02:18 AM

If it gets listed, you get these benefits:

- An incoming link from DMOZ, which is an established directory
- Being on the DMOZ page that often appears in search engine results for the directory topic
- Links from sites that pick up the listings from DMOZ

That doesn't seem to make all the mucking around worth it. You can be in the top 10 of google searches before someone at DMOZ even bothers logging in. :sleep:

writespeak

12-17-2005, 04:30 AM

That doesn't seem to make all the mucking around worth it. You can be in the top 10 of google searches before someone at DMOZ even bothers logging in. :sleep:

It isn't much mucking around. If you're submitting your site to various directories, you need to write out a description anyway. It's just one more directory on the list. If you take a few minutes to submit your site to DMOZ, it might get listed in numerous directories as a result. But if you don't take those few minutes, all those directories will be lost to you.

Your choice. :fish:

Lois

Jan

12-17-2005, 05:56 AM

I mean the mucking around waiting to see if you get listed or not and/or forgetting (because it took so long) that you had submitted your site already and then get penalised if you resubmit.

linux-tech

12-17-2005, 02:35 PM

I wouldn't call it "neglecting" when some of us are involved in many volunteer projects.

Then those "volunteers" are clearly not cut out for the job of organizing what is supposed to be one of the largest "open directories" out there.

I have been a DMOZ editor in the past, gave it up, because it's a thankless job that requires a good bit of work at times. Unfortunately, the people that DO take on that job many times don't care 2 bits about anything but self promotion.

So after all the waiting and cussing, what is the benefit of submitting?

The benefit? Almost (almost) every search engine grabs from DMOZ. Dmoz has individual sites as well which run mini directories (get listings of specific sections, etc).
It's actually a good thing to get listed. Too bad it's a pain in the tail to do.

Submitting sites isn't difficult as long as you follow the rules.

Not so.
Example:
I've been trying for 3 years to get my business website in there. Have I received one bit of contact about it? nope
Have I received a link into there? Again, absolutely not.
Did I submit to the right category? You bet
That's not counting the countless times that their "submission" form crapped out for whatever reason.

3 years later, what do I have to show for it? Not one bloody thing. No acknowledgement of submission, no acknowledgement of anything like a "volunteer" getting off their tail end and actually lookign at it. Why? Because the volunteers don't want competition in the area they're volunteering. Of course, they're "experts" in their area, meaning they run businesses in that same area.

Dmoz is nothing but a highly exclusive club of individuals who will turn down applications without notification for any reason whatsoever. After a while, you just give up and quit trying, knowing it's a useless, fruitless effort.

writespeak

12-17-2005, 04:33 PM

I mean the mucking around waiting to see if you get listed or not and/or forgetting (because it took so long) that you had submitted your site already and then get penalised if you resubmit.

But that applies to all directories that you submit to.

I made a table a while ago to track directory submissions. IIRC it lists the directory/category, date submitted, maybe some other details, date last checked, and Y/N (is it listed). That's for all the directories I submit a site to, not just DMOZ. When you have something like that, there's no mucking around. :)

Lois

writespeak

12-17-2005, 05:05 PM

Then those "volunteers" are clearly not cut out for the job of organizing what is supposed to be one of the largest "open directories" out there.

The way I see it, if a lot of us can each take on a small task, the work will get done. I will happily hand over the categories I maintain if anyone else wants them. As I said, the subcategories are listed as available. But no one else has volunteered, so I'm doing what I can. Once a month for small categories is a lot better than nothing.

...that requires a good bit of work at times.

I put a lot of work into it at first to get through the backlog and add new categories. Now, I put in much less time. Less time is needed at this point.

Unfortunately, the people that DO take on that job many times don't care 2 bits about anything but self promotion.

I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but I haven't seen it. I don't know what self-promotion there is except to become a more senior editor, which isn't my interest.

Not so.

Yes so. :)

I agree with your point that getting listed is not easy. My point is that submitting your site is easy. Once it's submitted, there's at least a chance of it getting listed.

Why? Because the volunteers don't want competition in the area they're volunteering. Of course, they're "experts" in their area, meaning they run businesses in that same area.

Dmoz is nothing but a highly exclusive club of individuals who will turn down applications without notification for any reason whatsoever.

I'm surprised at all these generalized statements about DMOZ editors, not just from you. They may be true about some editors, but I doubt they apply to the majority.

When you become a DMOZ editor, you have to list all the sites you're involved with. You can maintain a category that has a site of yours in it, but you have to follow the rules for competitors too. And I do. (I don't run a business in the category I edit, but I maintain a site in it.) The only sites I haven't approved are ones with "under construction" notices or that are otherwise not completed yet (we aren't supposed to approve such sites) and sites that were (in these cases) clearly submitted to the wrong category.

I suppose all this bashing comes from the frustration of not getting your sites listed. That's understandable, but at the same time, I don't think it's fair to attribute these negative traits to a group of people when they probably apply to only a few, if any. Your site may have been turned down, but it may not have been looked at yet.

Lois

SoftWareRevue

12-17-2005, 05:05 PM

. . .

Dmoz is nothing but a highly exclusive club of individuals who will turn down applications without notification for any reason whatsoever. After a while, you just give up and quit trying, knowing it's a useless, fruitless effort.That's my frustration with them.

It would stand to reason that something so, obviously understaffed, should address the concern and do some staffing.

On your three year ordeal . . . have you posted at dmoz forums (http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php)?

I had a site that I couldn't get listed. After two years, I went there and it was listed in a matter of days.

No reason given for it taking me to post there to get it listed. Nothing else I had to do. Apparently they just need a good butt kickin' ta get goin' sometimes. :bkick:

SoftWareRevue

12-17-2005, 05:08 PM

. . . but it may not have been looked at yet.

LoisYou do see that as a problem?

I see it as the problem. :pullhair:

writespeak

12-17-2005, 05:15 PM

You do see that as a problem?

I see it as the problem. :pullhair:

Yeah. The problem is that there aren't enough volunteers, and some categories haven't had an editor for a while. Sites don't get listed, people understandably get upset, and they start attributing motives to the volunteers who are doing what they can. Fewer people want to apply to be volunteers because it all looks like such a mess, and...here we are.

I remember someone telling me that you can always find something good in a situation. :angel:

Lois

SoftWareRevue

12-17-2005, 06:12 PM

heh . . the good part is, it's good to get listed.

:banghead: We're just tired of beating our heads against that wall. :beathead:

On a brighter note; some editors really do take their position seriously. :wavey:

SoftWareRevue

12-17-2005, 08:08 PM

. . . On your three year ordeal . . . have you posted at dmoz forums (http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php)? . . .I take that back.

From what I've read on that forum today, it would only add to your frustration.

It seems they've discontinued the submission status forum per the announcement at http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=188385

Probably for good reason. Because the newest post in the old section under Site Submission Status > Computers still hasn't been listed. About all they did was tell the poor poster to wait. http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25830

Aussie Bob

12-17-2005, 09:15 PM

That's ironic Dennis, given -

The original mandate of this forum was to put a better light on the ODP by allowing the public to interact directly with the editors.

So they wanted interaction with editors and the public, but didn't want the public to question why their site wasn't listed?

Classic. :D

SoftWareRevue

12-17-2005, 10:13 PM

Not only that, but they don't want editors that have been let go, (or those that want to become editors) to know why. http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41806

linux-tech

12-17-2005, 10:20 PM

yeah, I posted a question there a while back, no responses were received, not really surprising.

DMOZ , as it was designed, is great. Lately, it's become just useless as anything. It used to be that having your site listed meant something, any more it's just not worth the time.

writespeak

12-17-2005, 10:27 PM

Not only that, but they don't want editors that have been let go, (or those that want to become editors) to know why. http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41806

The response reminded me in part of another forum -- except that they didn't provide a link to their helpdesk. Privacy is important, but so is good communication. :fish:

Lois

Papoloko

12-17-2005, 10:59 PM

writespeak

12-17-2005, 11:03 PM

Yesterday I submitted my site to "dmoz". By the time I finished, in the bottom of the page, there was the invitation to become an editor. I did a lot of reading in their site to find out what was require to be an editor and even though I'm no very knowledgeable about that kind of work I decided to offer myself to help. I couldn't even go through offering my help. They put up a "Not help needed" notice right in the begining of the process... Why do they invited me if they couldn't use any help? I felt stupid expending my time like that.

I suggesting posting that in their Becoming an Editor forum (http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11). I'd like to see what response you get. Maybe there's a problem with their software, or...well, why don't we find out.

Lois

Papoloko

12-17-2005, 11:28 PM

I suggesting posting that in their Becoming an Editor forum (http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11). I'd like to see what response you get. Maybe there's a problem with their software, or...well, why don't we find out.

Lois

In reality, maybe they did me a favor by not getting my help.

I wasn't so sure about being qualified to be an editor anyway. I do have plenty of time available to help but I never done that type of work and my native lenguage isn't English but Spanish. It take me double time to write in English.

I posted my site at the "Personal Watercrafts" category, the personal website section, and there were only about 10 web sites subscribed to that group so it did look to me like it wouln't be that hard to handle. I will wait until I get more experience writing in the forums and then try again.

Jan

12-17-2005, 11:35 PM

This is a good example of the trials and tribulations of being an active editor, http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28701, and possibly why volunteers are short in numbers or relatively inactive.

Papoloko

12-18-2005, 12:19 AM

Jan

12-18-2005, 07:26 AM

Yeah, I have been watching articles about DMOZ for about four years, enough to turn me off ever submitting my sites. Once upon a time it was the bee's knees of places to get listed, but nowadays it doesn't rate as a high priority.

Aussie Bob

12-18-2005, 10:20 AM

Do bees actually have knees? :D

I think the attraction about DMOZ was if you're listed there, then you're treated more favourabily with Google. Or that used to be the general consensus. I'm not sure if that still applies, in the ever changing SEO scene.

writespeak

12-18-2005, 04:17 PM

It look like been an editor is just the small part of that job. :talk:

Depends on how involved you get. I just maintain my small, easy category. Like lots of others, I don't have time for the rest.

Lois

writespeak

12-18-2005, 04:22 PM

I think the attraction about DMOZ was if you're listed there, then you're treated more favourabily with Google. Or that used to be the general consensus. I'm not sure if that still applies, in the ever changing SEO scene.

According to this page (http://www.dmoz.org/help/helpmain.html), the sites that use ODP data include "Google, AOL/Netscape, Lycos, and hundreds more."

The attraction to me is getting listed at all the other sites that use ODP data (http://www.dmoz.org/help/getdata.html). If you aren't listed at DMOZ and your competitors are, and they're in a category that a lot of other sites pick up the data from, you have a severe disadvantage in terms of getting incoming links. That one link at DMOZ can add up to a lot of links for you.

Lois

Aussie Bob

12-25-2005, 04:20 AM

. . . If you don't like the DMOZ delays, become part of the solution instead of the problem and sign up to be an editor yourself. :)
Ok, I did just that, for this (http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/Hosting/D/) catagory. I carefully complete the form, then press submit, and I get a "Request Reinstatement of Editor Account" page, instead of a confirmation page. Is that normal?

I've never been a DMOZ Editor before, so I can't be reinstated. :iunno: