A "Falling Out"

[adb22791]

A "Falling Out". An interesting slang term, and an interesting concept.

What happens when you, a staff member of a forum have a falling out with your forum administrator? What happens when your forum administrator has a falling out with you?

Hypothetical situation: Your forum has a lounge. You participate in the lounge, trying to interact with members, and be a good moderator. Theres one thread thats going a little "crazy", but not in too bad of a way, just some honest good fun.

Now, you've participated in said thread. Some members think the thread is a waste of time, and turn their noses up, however other members think its rather amusing, and are being entertained by it. Other staff members are participating as well.

Then the admin comes along. He/she doesn't like what you're doing. So he/she decides it would be fine to give the staff a hard time publically. In front of all the other users, the admin chews out his staff, telling them to grow up, behave, and saying other members think they are foolish. Then, the admin locks the thread, bans the staff members, and even fires one.

So I am interested in your opinions.

1) Was the admin in the wrong when he/she "chewed out" (another excellent slang term) the other staff members?

2) Do you think it was needed to ban the staff members, and even fire the one staff member with talking to them (privately) first?

Let the debate being :banana2:

[TheDPQ]

Staff need to be united, showing that they support each other even if behind the scenes they don't exactly all agree.

I would never choose a mod that would do what your admin just did. I would never work under an admin that would do that either. Shame is not a tool to used on people helping you out.

I'd need to see the thread, but i really think the admin overreacted. Mods a user's too. When a mod needs to mod they need to act like a mod. If they want to BS around on the forum then fine, now they are a user. I'd never let a mod 'pull rank' in a non-moderating situation, just as I'd never slap them around for having fun as a user in a non-moderating situation.

It is so easy for people to ignore a single thread they don't like. I had an entire forum for spamy useless crap that people LOVE doing. I let them do it as long as its not hogging all the space in general discussion. One thread is nothing.

I have a thread for useless crap called psychobabble. <3

Did the mod break any rules? Then no they don't deserved to be banned. Fired? Thats up to the admin. STUPID maybe, but it is their choice.

Now did said mod cause issues with said admin because of the situation? Thats a different story.

Now, not talking to your staff before banning/firing them... thats stupid as well. That will only show you refuse to work with people, and probably cause more trouble then its worth. Scorned people tend to do a lot of stupid things afterwards.

[Jan]

Not being aware of the circumstances, I believe any "dressing down" should have been done in private. Again without know the circumstances, it is hard to comment on whether the mod should have been banned.

Having said that, when one takes on a roll as staff member, he/she should think before they post. What you can say as a regular member and what you can say when you are entrusted as a staff member are two different kettles of fish.

[SoftWareRevue]

Hypothetical situation:Too many unknowns for a hypothetical. :P

What was the PM communication like?

What was the thread really like?

Banning seems a pretty drastic action from what you've posted. But, lke Jan mentioned, it's really too hard for us to comment on something so vague.

[stacys200]

One thing that REALLY makes me angry (this coming from being an admin and having experience as a mod too) is when other moderators or admin feel that they have the right to be nasty in public - whether it be in the actual forum or in the private mod/admin forum in front of other staff. Any serious matters should be done in PM or ideally, by phone.
It is a sign of immaturity to make people look bad in public, especially when you're an admin and people think you have so much 'power'!

stacy

[Scott]

Sounds like it's the admin that needs to grow up if you ask me. Banning aside, the admin should deal with staff issues in private.

If this has happened, and things have been said which shouldn't have, perhaps banning is justified. If not, hopefully someone will point out to the admin where they have gone wrong and the admin will learn something.

[TheDPQ]

One thing that REALLY makes me angry (this coming from being an admin and having experience as a mod too) is when other moderators or admin feel that they have the right to be nasty in public - whether it be in the actual forum or in the private mod/admin forum in front of other staff. Any serious matters should be done in PM or ideally, by phone.
It is a sign of immaturity to make people look bad in public, especially when you're an admin and people think you have so much 'power'!

stacy
Sadly this is tolerated on a lot of forums. Mods do work and admins don't want to step on their toes for going a little crazy... or sometimes even the admin is convinced that the mods are better then the users. Pffft.

If there is one way for me to lose respect for a forum its to see the staff abuse the members with the excuse of 'well i'm a mod of course i'm right'.

[SoftWareRevue]

... If there is one way for me to lose respect for a forum its to see the staff abuse the members with the excuse of 'well i'm a mod of course i'm right'.And a lot of that is because there are admins that support their mods, no matter how wrong they are.

[TheDPQ]

The problem is half the time you are indebted to the mods who do a lot of work for your community, free. So its hard to bitchslap the sassy bastards because you want them to continue to do it.

The trick is getting your stuff to understand what you expect of them, working close with them when you fee they step out of line, and not letting them get away with anything.

'Its not what you said its how you said it'.
'Even if you were right how you handled it wasn't the best way'
'We aren't looking at who is 'right' and who is 'wrong' in a situation sometimes but who or what is the actual problem.'

[adb22791]

Wow, old thread, but still a good topic.
Since I posted this, I have come to this conclusion...

The worst thing for any forum or community is for a staff member to publically abuse another staff member or member. For one thing, this just plain makes the forum look bad. For another, this makes staff think it's ok to be a bully, and when moderators are being bullied by admins, they will most likely get angry and bully another member to try and make themselves feel better. Staff to staff issues should be handled in private, and staff to member issues in private as well. Another thing that I don't think we touched on is how other members can bully members. For example, let's say you see one of the mods picking on a member. You may then think that it's a good idea to pick on that member too, and soon that member is the scape goat of the entire board.

A falling out between a moderator and an administrator may happen, but should be dealt with privately and respectfully. I also believe that the administrator should wait before letting the moderator go, as things can change very quickly (over a period of a couple days). Maybe give the moderator some "vacation", but don't kick him or her out immediatly. After all, you've recruited and probably spent some time training this person, and they most likely know your boards rules and members, so they are an asset.

There is probably more to be said here, but thats what I've concluded so far.

[writespeak]

For another, this makes staff think it's ok to be a bully, and when moderators are being bullied by admins, they will most likely get angry and bully another member to try and make themselves feel better.
I don't know about "most likely," but certainly "possibly."

Personally, if anyone tries to bully me in any situation, they don't get the intended results. I don't tolerate being treated like that. If an admin did that to me, I'd be gone. Why should anyone allow themselves to be mistreated when they're volunteering their time?

Staff to staff issues should be handled in private, and staff to member issues in private as well.
I think we all agree on that. :)

Another thing that I don't think we touched on is how other members can bully members. For example, let's say you see one of the mods picking on a member. You may then think that it's a good idea to pick on that member too, and soon that member is the scape goat of the entire board.
I think you'd suddenly get a lot of complaints about that mod. But I suppose it depends on the forum. If that type of behaviour is tolerated, well, moderators help set the standard.

A falling out between a moderator and an administrator may happen, but should be dealt with privately and respectfully. I also believe that the administrator should wait before letting the moderator go, as things can change very quickly (over a period of a couple days). Maybe give the moderator some "vacation", but don't kick him or her out immediatly.
Or maybe the admin needs a vacation. :P

"Privately and respectfully" applies to all types of relationships. We can all have problems with other people, and we can often work through those problems if we show respect for the other person and try to understand their point of view.

Lois

[KimmiKat]

Something like this happened on the old XOOM Helpcentre mboard. An admin chewed out a couple of staff in public for making comments about the original XOOMbar (as seen below) when it was in it's testing mode. After that they let go a number of staff except for a few. There was a real lack of trust as the admins were always secretive about things.

http://www.kimmikat.com/kron/xoombar.gif